Oppo-inions wanted: a 2-wheels-bad dilemma

"Vee Ate Injun" (VeeAteInjun)
11/09/2014 at 19:36 • Filed to: None

Hey Opponauts. So I'm on the cusp of joining the 2-wheels-bad society and buying my first motorbike. I've set my eyes on two bikes that couldn't be further apart: on the left in the image above you have the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . On the right you have the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Problem is I can't decide between the two, so I'm hoping some of you can chime in with some wicked knowledge or insight.

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I'll give you a micro rundown of the two bikes:

The CB300F is the fairing-less sister bike to the sporty CBR300R (an excellent bike in its own right). It is a naked/standard bike, with the reviews I've read !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Sounds like a bike that is as capable in urban traffic as it is on the twisties in the canyons.

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The SR400 is an new, old bike. No really. It's basically the same as the SR500 that came out in 1978. It even "features" kick-start only (no electric starter button here) as the means to fire it up. There are two improvements over the original: disc brake up front, and fuel injection (which apparently makes kick starting it relatively easy). So essentially, it's a retro bike oozing with character.

Now, here's where things get tricky: the price. The CB300F is a steal at $3999 MSRP. The SR400, on the other hand, charges a premium for the retro coolness: $5990. Yes, that's $2,000 more for the simpler new-old bike. However, a dealer I visited today will sell the SR400 to me for $4999 (before fees/taxes) so the great divide between the two bikes is a bit smaller. (I'm sure I can score the CB300F for a few Ben Franklins under MSRP)

So what do you think, fellow Opponauts? Should I adopt the well-rounded, sporty Honda? Or should I ride off into the sunset on a retro-modern gem?

Notes : 1) both models are brand new, 1st year offerings, so finding a used one is most likely not going to happen; 2) as I mentioned, I'm a new rider, and after sitting on both at different dealers, my butt was equally content on both for different reasons; 3) is it foolish of me to think I can successfully avoid dropping my potential new bike? ("... it's not a question of 'if', but 'when' ...") I'm a pretty careful person. Honest. 4) I was considering a vintage Honda but I don't want to deal with the trials of owning a vintage vehicle ( citation : I own a vintage car, so I know) 5) I haven't written off the used bike market: the local dealer has a gently-used (re: 490 miles on it) 250cc Honda that would make for an fine, perfectly competent beginner bike. But do I want just " competent "? 6) what do I want it for, you ask? well, it will not be my main form of transportation, as I already have two "cages" (that's what us motorcyclists call cars ). It will mostly be for riding when i'm in the mood, either for going to work or for spirited-but-conservatively-safe rides in the canyons or along the coast.

DISCUSSION (63)

jkm7680 > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 19:38

I'd say CBR if you are interested in staying with sportbike style bikes and the Yamaha if you're interested in cafe racers/Cruisers.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > jkm7680
11/09/2014 at 19:41

Yamaha BC it looks better and you're not gonna get looked at like you're a douche on it .

Jesse Shaffer > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 19:44

First bike? Ninja 500. Buy one. Beat the shit out of it. Don't maintain it. Sell it for what you bought for even after abusing it. Buy a nice 2nd bike. Call the guy you sold the 500 to a year later and ask for it back.

Kinja'd!!!

bob and john > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 19:44

BIKES? BIIIKKKKKEEESSSSS

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-beginners-…

Id do the USED honda and find yourself a DAM good set of frame sliders. It going to be easier to sell off the honda then the Yamaha, and you arent going to have ther bike for more then a year or 2 anyways.

DO NOT FORGET YOUR GEAR! The money you save on the Yamaha can go into a decent set of gear and an exhaust slip on if you REALLY want one.

Sources: Hello fellow biker:

Kinja'd!!!

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 19:55

SR400 FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nisman > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:00

Coming from a new rider with a season under my belt, you're gonna want the Yamaha. Comfort and Style are personally my two top priorities on a bike, and your butt may like both seats at the dealer, but after a day or two of hard riding, you'll wish you had gone for a cruiser of some sort. Honestly, you're gonna get bored of a 300 or 400 VERY fast. I believe that it's a myth that you'll automatically kill yourself starting out on a bike with more than 500ccs, ESPECIALLY a cruiser. Harleys have 1600ish CCs depending on the model and inexperienced riders have little to no trouble with them. Just KNOW YOUR LIMITS, and don't be stupid. Now for the important question, "it's not a matter of if, but when." I'm calling bullshit. I'm a careful rider myself, and I'm assuming you are a good driver being a jalop. Sure, riding a bike is a lot different, but ultimately you drop a bike because you weren't paying enough attention. Just be extra careful, expecillay around 1k miles. You'll feel really comfortable at this point, and thus more likely to drop it or do something dumb. Watch out for that gravel. I currently ride a Yamaha Virago 750 and I'm bored. I love it, but I want more grunt. Have not dropped it in 5k? miles. Take it from me, you're gonna love it whatever you end up buying!

Side note: My Uncle, a Harley dealer, didn't drop a bike until he was in his sixties (and it wasn't because of his age), so never say never!

desertdog5051 > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:05

First bike? Buy the Honda. The Yamahopper is cool, but is only is going to appeal to a limited amount of riders. Most people want that button to start it and modern styling. You have to remember who you will be re-selling this to.

Spoon! > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:06

I'd choose the Grom... oh, you mean of those two. The Honda, pretty much hands down.

Tohru > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:07

If you're getting the SR400, you'll need to know how to change the oil.

Tohru > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:08

What's wrong with a used Ninja 250? Buy it for two grand, ride it for a year, sell it for two grand.

AdverseMartyr > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:08

The main difference I can see is the all important tank height for when you have to stand on the front brake and forget to squeeze with your knees. The new classic means you will be sitting up on the handle bars; the sporty bike will potentially lead to some crushing of tender areas, but staying where the controls are usable.

Either choice is going to lead to some emotional trauma when you find that first wet oil spot in a parking lot while avoiding a speed bump.

Their both excellent looking though.

JohnZPublic > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:10

I'm in the same boat. I am a new rider. I have a Honda CRF250X (street legal) but don't want to ride that all over the place (mainly because it doesn't have a key, but also due to maintenance). I'm going with the CB300F because it seems to be the least expensive bike I can learn to ride on the street that will still keep up with traffic. If you plan on upgrading (I do), I'd go with the cheaper option and then upgrade to a 600 after you outgrow the 300. That is my plan.

CRider > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:14

The Honda is definitely the better buy... but the Yamaha is so cool. And you can't go wrong with a kick starter. Test ride them, decide which one you like better.

cazzyodo > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:21

I love classic looking bikes but i don't think you can go wrong. I have an older Suzuki intruder and it's a tank haha

Clown Shoe Pilot > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 20:29

Buy the Honda and spend the difference between the Honda and the Yamaha on gear.

The electric start and fuel injection will make the Honda easier to live with, and the more contemporary looks will make it easier to sell when you move on to your next bike. Also, I think that the CB300F is going to be the next "first bike" that sells used for a decent fraction of new price, even 3 owners down the road.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Tohru
11/09/2014 at 21:06

SHit..... I was gonna post this

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 21:10

Get the Honda....

Why don't you look at the CB500F then? (if you're even considering a bike around $6000) http://powersports.honda.com/2014/cb500f/op…

For a noob, 500cc should be still quite safe and fun

Vee Ate Injun > Spoon!
11/09/2014 at 21:47

hah! I actually was considering the Grom, but it's limitations made it a no-go.

Though, I'll consider it in the future as a 2nd fun toy.

Vee Ate Injun > Vince-The Roadside Mechanic
11/09/2014 at 21:50

Well I can't argue with that!

Jesse Shaffer > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 21:50

is it foolish of me to think I can successfully avoid dropping my potential new bike? ("... it's not a question of 'if', but 'when' ...") I'm a pretty careful person. Honest.

It depends on how much you use it. When I got my Kawasaki, I had 14k miles on it within the first summer... so, yeah: I dumped it a time or two. One time was in the rain when I shouldn't have been on it, the next was just after I installed a new rear-tire. In both situations, FEATHER all controls. A bike is easy to learn as static, but the second the environment changes you're told how ignorantly cocky you are or aren't.

Vee Ate Injun > Tohru
11/09/2014 at 21:53

Well, I appreciate sport bikes but don't want one at the time. The CB300F has a more upright seating position than it's sister bike, CBR300R. I sat on both back to back yesterday and wasn't into the sporty seat and peg position of the CBR.

The CB300F is about as sporty as I'll go, but I will keep the Ninja in my back pocket.

Vee Ate Injun > CRider
11/09/2014 at 21:54

yeah, the problem is there are compelling arguments for both! I have to make my brain and my heart come to an agreement...

Vee Ate Injun > desertdog5051
11/09/2014 at 21:59

Good point regarding reselling. Though the Yamaha is a somewhat limited production bike In the US so there won't be that many competitors (the closest two bikes I can think of is the Royal Enfield Continental GT and Suzuki TU250X, the latter of which is not legal here in CA).

Vince-The Roadside Mechanic > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 21:59

good

Vee Ate Injun > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback
11/09/2014 at 22:00

Hah, can't argue with that!

Vee Ate Injun > jkm7680
11/09/2014 at 22:05

well I don't want to go too sporty - the CB300F is more of a standard (compared to the sport bike CBR300R) but the contemporary styling is growing on me. I wasn't cinsidering sport bikes but the CB300F got too much praise to ignore

And i think I would keep the Yamaha stock, as much as I like cafe racers. I just like the vintage styling as it is.

Turk > Vee Ate Injun
11/09/2014 at 22:43

Nice bikes are awesome, but it rally hurts when they go crunch. Learn on something that's already beat up - host of good choices out there and on other comments, baby ninjas, gs650 and cbr 250s or cheapo dirtbikes. You will hurt your first, possibly even all of your bikes, but its a lot harder to get over the emotional blow when its your first one too.

Tohru > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 00:10

I've had a Ninja 250. The seating position is much more "sport touring" than a Ninja 500, Ninja 636, or a ZX-6R.

uofime > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 10:03

I own a '10 ninja 250 which was my first bike and cannot recommend one enough. The seating position is plenty up right and very confortable. It's pleasant to ride in all situations, from stop and go rush hour traffic (as much as it is possible to be), and slow driving on city streets, to carving mountain roads. I cannot recommend it enough it's biggest weakness is interstate cruising, it doesn't cruise well much over 85 and its practical top speed is 95mph

JEM > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 10:42

Go with the Honda.

As a new rider, you're going to have a lot on you hands (and feet, and mind, and butt... etc..) to deal with and the last thing you want is a kind of older, antiquated bike tech to worry about. As cool as the Yamaha looks, it's still a retro chassis design (granted with upgraded brakes and fueling which helps immensely) and won't handle as well as the Honda.

If you want a retro bike, get one as a second bike eventually.

Oh, and take an MSF class to get your license! Can't recommend them enough:

http://www.msf-usa.org/brc.aspx

As for dropping, yes, you will most likely drop it at some point. Happens to everyone.

EDIT: Before you get a bike, check insurance rates! Not sure if used bikes are cheaper but that might be one good reason to consider one vs a new bike.

Vee Ate Injun > Jesse Shaffer
11/10/2014 at 11:40

I hopefully got all my cockiness out when I was younger, so I'm going into this carefully. An "older beginner" if you will. Thanks for the input.

Vee Ate Injun > Clown Shoe Pilot
11/10/2014 at 11:46

All good points. Regarding the "livability" of the Honda vs Yamaha: this will be a bike for recreation so I don't have worry to much about riding it as my only means of transportation. So I could live with the "character " of the Kawasaki. (I own a classic car, so I know what temperamental can be)

Regarding reselling: good points that I'll look further into and keep in mind.

Vee Ate Injun > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
11/10/2014 at 14:24

true, though I *wasn't* looking at bikes in the $6k range. I thought the SR400 was in the 4k range.

I'll keep the CB500F in mind - perhaps I'll look at it when I'm ready to move on after my first bike. Thanks for the input!

Vee Ate Injun > JEM
11/10/2014 at 14:39

yeah, I've thought of that, as well. Though whatever bike I get I will try to keep my riding on the conservative side for a while so I'm not itching to push anything to the limits. I mean, it really is hard to argue against the Honda - it's a solid bike all around. Only thing I'm not super warm on is the contemporary styling, even though I like it more every time I see it (and I really like it in person).

I have successfully passed the MSF course, so I'll be taking the written portion of the test this week and I'll be licensed to ride a motorcycle or scooter in the grand state of California.

And I promise to be super careful with whatever bike I get. Scout's honor. (I know... I know...)

Good point regarding insurance, I'll look into that.

Cheers!

Vee Ate Injun > uofime
11/10/2014 at 14:50

yeah, totally - there's a reason they're so popular and have been since they were launched. My issue is with the contemporary styling - that's why I like the CB300F because it's a naked bike, though even that one was more modern than I was looking for (but it's growing on me).

And I think I'll casually work my way up to anything with a top speed over 90. Hah!

Thanks for the input.

Vee Ate Injun > Tohru
11/10/2014 at 15:00

right on. Though, to be honest, it kinda weirded me out when I sat on a sport bike to look down at the front wheel and see the fairings fixed in place while I turned the bars. I really felt comfortable on the naked bike (Honda). And if Kawasaki made a naked version of the Ninja (they don't, do they?) I would still opt for the Honda out of brand loyalty. (I know, I know...)

Vee Ate Injun > Clown Shoe Pilot
11/10/2014 at 15:06

I meant "Yamaha" in my comment above, not Kawasaki (people suggesting the Ninja got my brains temporarily confused).

Additional point: I'm planning on financing the bike so I'm not really dropping all the cash at once. But I will be investing in the right gear, for sure. My wife is making sure of it!

Thanks for the input!

uofime > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 15:08

you should definitely try to get a test ride on both.

My friend has a CB500R which is the 2cyl version of the same motor in the 300 and I rode it a bit and was a little let down by the engine, it redlines just when it is getting fun. Dynamically it did feel really good and I think the chassis is very similar to the 300. I'm sure you'd be happy with it.

If you've got the money the 500 would be worth considering too, the power is definitely manageable for a beginner.

don't worry if you don't want to go over 90 on a ninja all you have to do is stay in the upright seated position!

Tohru > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 15:13

Kawi doesn't make a naked baby Ninja, no.

My mom couldn't ride my Ninja because of the fixed fairing. She rides a 1200 Sportster.

Vee Ate Injun > Tohru
11/10/2014 at 15:16

That video is 'effing great. Very informative, in so many ways. Blink and you'll miss 12 dry-wit gems. Thanks for sharing!

Vee Ate Injun > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
11/10/2014 at 15:17

Well, we'll just have to be quicker next time, won't we?

Ps: what do you ride?

Vee Ate Injun > uofime
11/10/2014 at 15:23

yeah, I'm hoping to get my moto license endorsement this week (just have to pass the written test at the DMV) - just in time for the big motorcycle show in Long Beach this weekend. I'm hoping to test ride a bike or two at the show, and maybe score some deals on some sweet gear.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 15:24

Kinja'd!!!

Ducati 748

Vee Ate Injun > Tohru
11/10/2014 at 15:29

So moms and me are the only people that can't (or prefer not to) ride sport bikes. I kid - your mom gets mega bonus cool points for being a rider ( I can't pry the minivan away from my mom).

Vee Ate Injun > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
11/10/2014 at 15:43

well now that is a handsome beast, isn't it?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 15:45

Thanks! I just went on my last ride of the year yesterday

Kinja'd!!!

Tohru > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 16:07

Sorry to hear you're a mom, and about your mom's minivan. Though if you think that's scandalous you should hear what she's been doing with all those 13 year olds on XBOX Live.

Vee Ate Injun > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
11/10/2014 at 16:55

last ride of the year? Winter storage, I assume?

(We're spoiled here in SoCal with our year-long riding/driving weather)

Vee Ate Injun > Tohru
11/10/2014 at 16:58

Yeah, I'm coming to terms with being a mom. My wife, on the other hand, is not so thrilled. But that's life...

Vee Ate Injun > Jesse Shaffer
11/10/2014 at 17:03

That seems to be true of most beginner bikes, as there are always beginners willing to learn on a beater. That's the advantage of the used 250cc Honda I'm also considering.

Vee Ate Injun > Nisman
11/10/2014 at 17:10

thank you - I'm glad to finally hear from someone in the "haven't dropped it" camp. And at 5k that's impressive and gives me hope. Yes, I plan to be a careful rider - even more than I am as a driver (I'm working on being more defensive than I already am in the car, and to not let other driver's bad habits/mistakes piss me off).

The Virago is a cool bike, saw one at the dealer last week and dug the looks. Interesting to hear that you're outgrowing it.

And kudos to your uncle!

Tohru > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 17:11

Well, at least you two are working it out.

Vee Ate Injun > AdverseMartyr
11/10/2014 at 17:17

good points! Thanks for the input!

Vee Ate Injun > JohnZPublic
11/10/2014 at 17:19

how long have you been riding? Tip the bike over in the garage yet? Have you check out the CB300F in person? It's a very nice bike.

Vee Ate Injun > bob and john
11/10/2014 at 17:36

good article you linked! Thanks for that.

Re: used Honda... There's actually one I'm considering. It's a little 250cc Nighthawk. Thing is, it has drum brakes front and back. Is that a deal breaker? I'm guessing the brakes will be more than adequate for my use, but...?

Yeah, definitely not skimping on the gear (my wife is making sure of it). So is an exhaust slip on basically just an aftermarket exhaust?

Also: interesting that your article you mention the CBR300F with ABS. I thought you made a mistake, as I only knew of the CB300F... no ABS. But I guess that's the only one we get here in the states?

bob and john > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 17:48

ohhh......hmm. Id skip on the night hawk then. I did drive a bike with a rear drum once. Wasnt impressed at all. I'd stick to AT LEAST a front disk.

Id say try to find a used CBR250. The after market is a little more developed for them then the new 300s, you save a little bit of cash (or you can get one with ABS) and not feel as bad when you drop it the first time.

A slip-on exhaust is just that. a slip on. the car eqivalent is a fart cannon. you just replace the last part of the exhaust system (the big sliver can on the CBR300 in the lead picture)

A full exhaust has the headers as well

Wehn you buy the bike, first thing (before all else) That I say is to get a set of frame sliders. these are pucks that take the brunt of the damage when you drop the bike. they are a great investment. a good set is usually ~150-200 pending on the bike. so which yould you rather spend. 150 on some sliders, or 500 for a new set of side fairings?

contuniing onto the after market stuff, this part of the reason id say go with the CBR. its much easier to find that kind of stuff for it VS that yamaha.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 20:13

yea.. I just took it to my friend's place to rest... he has a huge garage

Nisman > Vee Ate Injun
11/10/2014 at 20:21

Haha yeah man! It's not so much that I'm outgrowing it as much as I just want a Harley, and a larger bike in general (I'm a big guy) so I can stretch out. I know that's taboo on Jalopnik, but once I rode one I understood... There is truly nothing like it. The Virago is a great bike, and it isn't fast but it definitely keeps up on cruises no problem. Just looking for something with different character. I hope that wanting a Harley doesn't discredit me ;). Again, there is really no way to be sure whether or not you are going to actually drop it. But I think that if you're always extra careful, especially around town and in parking lots, you wont. Don't sweat it. The other idiots on the road are the real concern! Get a loud horn.

Vee Ate Injun > Nisman
11/10/2014 at 23:36

Heh, I thought the only taboo on Jalopnik was people who want automatic minivans. And even then I'm not so sure with some of the characters around here. Besides, there's a reason Harley Davidson has been around all these decades - they're doing something right!

JEM > Vee Ate Injun
11/12/2014 at 15:08

Relative:

http://rideapart.com/articles/revie…

Vee Ate Injun > JEM
11/14/2014 at 13:43

cool, thanks for sharing - I hadn't read that one yet.

I'm leaning towards the Yamaha SR400, even though the CB300F makes a very compelling argument. Ultimately, I'm responding to the SR400's characteristics and retro simplicity, but I'll keep the Honda in my back pocket for the future (or its bigger sibling the CB500F)...u

Gonemad > Vee Ate Injun
12/17/2014 at 05:30

I wouldn't shell out an extra grand to kickstart a bike. Unless it was a Harley. The CB should be your cheap-ass fall-often bike, then you move to bigger, better things. I would choose that one too, since I never rode a bike before, but kickstarting is for pizza delivery motorcycles... and vintage bikes.

I would worry about ABS (brakes) though. Your regular vintage bike can you throw you overboard like a wild bronco if you use just the front brakes and lock it. So I've heard. And seen. Unless you want to learn how to manage two brakes and use all sorts of non-ABS vintage bikes.

That's why I took a look myself at a 250cc Ninja. It has the ABS, but the wrong price tags, around these parts. And huge behemoths, like BMW, decide for you which brakes you should use, regardless the pedal or lever you squeeze.

Those were my concerns, never riding a bike before. I still didn't buy mine, and I hope to see here the results, perhaps helping my own decision.

Vee Ate Injun > Gonemad
12/17/2014 at 11:20

Thanks for the good input!

Follow up post is coming - I actually made a decision a few weeks ago. Stay tuned...